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OWN YOUR BRAND SHOW with Victoria Odekomaya
Welcome to the OWN YOUR BRAND SHOW where you'll learn how to own and grow your brand and market your business. Every week I interview entrepreneurs and/or share branding, marketing and business tips to grow your influence, build a profitable business and make an impact.
Victoria Odekomaya is an award winning photographer, brand & marketing strategist with over a decade of experience. She is passionate about helping women fulfill their dreams and purpose effortlessly.
Click to be featured, advertise on the show or connect with Victoria: https://mtr.bio/limstudios
OWN YOUR BRAND SHOW with Victoria Odekomaya
How to Navigate Mental Health Challenges as an Immigrant | Epi 51
Imagine uprooting your life and moving to a new country, only to find that your professional accomplishments and qualifications don’t carry the same weight. That's the reality for many immigrants, and Efe Hagley, a licensed mental health counselor from Nigeria, brings her personal and professional insights to our discussion. Efe opens up about the mental health challenges faced by immigrants, from navigating cultural differences and language barriers to rebuilding careers from scratch. Through her story, we explore the courage it takes to start over and the emotional toll it can take on self-esteem and mental health.
Efe and I share stories that highlight the unique stresses immigrants encounter, like being misunderstood because of accents, which can lead to self-doubt and anxiety. We discuss the importance of recognizing and utilizing existing skills, rather than starting over, as a way to thrive in a new environment. Our conversation celebrates the resilience and diverse contributions immigrants bring to American life while also addressing the cultural stigma surrounding mental health and the reluctance to seek help. Efe emphasizes the need for cultural competency in therapy, encouraging immigrants to overcome their fears and access necessary support.
Highlighting the importance of effective communication and self-advocacy, we stress recognizing early symptoms of mental health issues and seeking assistance before they escalate. Efe shares practical ways to support immigrants, such as fostering open-minded communication and creating stress-free environments. We also explore how a clean, organized space can improve mental well-being, linking community support with mental health. Join us in this heartfelt conversation as we aim to provide encouragement and understanding for immigrants striving to realize their potential in America.
Connect with Efe: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/feliciousefe/
//ABOUT
Victoria Odekomaya is a Nigerian American and former drug research scientist turned brand and marketing expert. Through her Creative Agency, LiMStudios, she specializes in brand photography, video creation, and strategic marketing. Victoria's mission is to empower female entrepreneurs to be SEEN, KNOWN, and HEARD, enhancing their visual presence and attracting their ideal customers to build a BANKABLE PERSONAL BRAND. Victoria's scientific background has honed her analytical thinking, attention to detail, and problem-solving skills, which she integrates into her branding strategies. Her 23-year journey to U.S. citizenship reflects the perseverance female entrepreneurs need to overcome challenges in branding and marketing. This fuels her dedication to empower women to achieve their entrepreneurial dreams.
In 2022, Victoria launched the BOSS LADIES CAMPAIGN, giving participants a celebrity photoshoot experience to enhance their confidence and brand visibility. The campaign promotes these women through features in BOSS LADIES magazine, appearances on Victoria's 'OWN YOUR BRAND SHOW', and recognition at the BOSS LADIES GALA. The gala not only celebrates women but also raises funds for local non-profits, so far raising $19,000+ for Dove Recovery House for Women and PINK RIBBON CONNECTION.
For sponsorship/business inquiries, visit https://mtr.bio/limstudios or email hello@thelimstudios.com.
Being an immigrant. You know it takes a lot of courage to move from your country like thousands of miles away from home, leaving everything behind, to have to come to a country like America to live the American dream and pursue maybe better education, better economy, economic benefits and stuff like that for yourself. So there's definitely a lot of stress that comes with just being an immigrant the fear of the unknown, the uncertainty of whether or not this dream is actually going to be the American dream.
Speaker 1:That is so true, and sometimes too, just the idea of even the language or the accent thing that people have to deal with. Many immigrants that have interacted with us not know what it means to deal with. Many immigrants that I've interacted with does not know what the police are saying. Now there is this community living, but at least where I'm from, nigeria where people can talk about their problems and family members just explain. It's a community, but the American system is very different. Right, even when you're talking to someone who you feel like you're close to, the person may not really be able to support you at the moment Just because of the baggages and the things that people deal with. They have their own lives to live.
Speaker 2:I can see how, for those that feel like they have to start over, you know, I know someone that they have. You know the executive level in Nigeria. They're working for a bank, but then when they came here they had to start over and then down their security. I know multiple people that are, you know, starting out as a CNA, you know, or like um, what do they call it? Yeah, cna, and all the things like I can just imagine, like the, the self doubt that that brings on.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another episode of the Own your Brand Show. Today I have my dear friend, effie Hagley. She is a licensed mental health counselor as well as a proud owner of iCare Clinic Services. She, just like me, is an immigrant from Nigeria and we're so proud to be here in this country. But not everybody can say that as an immigrant, it's very difficult for us to integrate into the system, and that could be a mental health situation. So we're going to be talking today about how immigrants can navigate, you know, being embedded into this country, and all of the situations that we might go to so that we can be successful in the country like America. So, without much ado, let's get into it. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. Thank you for having me, victoria. It's just an honor to be here. I am so excited to be here just talking about this very important topic that people don't typically address, so it's an opportunity for us to dive into these very unique issues that would improve the lives of people overall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So tell me a little bit for those that don't know you. I know who you are, I know what you've been doing, You've been working really hard, but just tell everybody a little bit about your background in mental health.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I am a licensed mental health counselor and I have been doing counseling for over 12 years. So I have a master's in clinical psychology and I had the opportunity to practice in Nigeria and do some work in South Africa and now in the United States where I currently work at the hospital as a clinician, they would say, just providing mental health care for people that are struggling with whether psychosis, depression, anxiety, name it all. So my journey for mental health kind of started when I started to notice the need in our community to just continue to support people. I mean, we cannot navigate or we cannot eliminate stress or traumatic events overall, but if people are equipped with the right skills and stuff like that, so I just felt like that's one way that I wanted to kind of dive in and support people to just be their best self and think about their life and work towards the goals that they want to achieve. So really excited.
Speaker 2:So you know what you say is so important and you know, as a Nigerian, I feel like I mean there's a ton of people, there's a ton of immigrants in this country. We know that it's actually one of the hot topics in the election cycle as well. But you know the truth. Like you said, you know the country is stressful, life is stressful regardless, but then when you add the, you know the stress of being an immigrant and whether or not you are wanted in the country, or whether or not you made it the right way, legally or not right. You're now in a new country. You know you're trying really hard to embed yourself, to be a part of like I feel like that itself is. So it's another level or layer of stress, you know. So it's really important that we have people like you that understands, because you, you know you've experienced part of that stress and you also educate people with all of your years of experience as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I mean being in human being and even just living in a society can be in itself very stressful. However, being an immigrant, you know it takes a lot of courage to move from your country, like thousands of miles away from home, leaving everything behind, to have to come to a country like America to live the American dream and pursue maybe better education, better economy, economic benefits and stuff like that for yourself. So there's definitely a lot of stress that comes with just being an immigrant the fear of the unknown, the uncertainty of whether or not this dream is actually going to be the American dream.
Speaker 2:That is so true.
Speaker 1:And sometimes too, just the idea of even the language or the accent thing that people have to deal with. I will tell you my story, for example. That is so true worked really hard to achieve most things that I want to achieve. However, when I first got to the country, there was this culture shock of having to learn to do things differently. On top of that, I was also meant to have to repeat myself over and over again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can relate when people tell me pardon, what did you say? Sometimes it's not because they're trying to be mean, it's just the fact that they really didn't understand what I was saying. And that starts to kind of affect my self-esteem Because I started wondering am I speaking English? Am I less of you? Know things like that? I mean we spoke English back home.
Speaker 2:We learned English in school.
Speaker 1:But there is I mean, there's just these nuances to living in America and interacting with the people in America that make it really really hard for immigrants, at least the first few years, when they are kind of especially first generation immigrants, I would say, when they are kind of settling into the country. Yeah, that kind of bring about doubt, that brings about frustration, that brings about anxiety and even stress, and most of the time immigrants just go back into their shell and they start to question their essence and even start to question whether or not they actually know what they're doing. So that's where I come in. I just really like to talk to immigrants about the skills, the talents and stuff like that that they already have and how they can use it as an opportunity to navigate this complex system called america, um, so they can use their potential to the fullest right, because, I mean, america is a country of immigrants yes, yeah, but just the uniqueness that everybody brings is what makes america beautiful.
Speaker 1:But it can like I said when you first come here, it can really be stressful to even have to deal with the nuances of the culture, the expectations and how people interact and do things, yeah.
Speaker 2:So let me tell you about my experience when I first, first of all, when I was getting. I came here when I was 17 and on the plane, I remember the late first thinking about this is too funny. I've never gone on a plane ever in my life. So I got my tickets, I got on the plane, I thought I could sit anywhere, yeah, so I sat down. I found the first seat and I sat down and then someone came to me and said, ah, you're sitting at my seat. And I was looking at him like, ah, there's so many seats around here.
Speaker 2:Why are you not finding your? Own so the hostess came and she told me oh, look at the number and go see where you're supposed to say Okay. So I went to do that. So eventually, where they were going through um they were they would say something, they were trying to feed us, and then the lady would say these are the options that that we have. And all I heard was and then you have to make a decision.
Speaker 2:The only thing I was hearing when she was talking was Coke. So every time when she talks I say oh, coke, so she would give me a Coke and then she would, you know, because it was a long flight. So I think we had like two meals and then we'll come back again and say all the things, coke. And I said, oh, yeah, coke. By the time I left I had like multiple cans of fun.
Speaker 2:I was so hungry. Now, fast forward. When I started working here, or even my first year in here too, I felt like I started understanding that people didn't understand my accent. And you have questions like where are you from? You know, because they don't. They want to be nice, but also, you know, it's kind of like they don't understand you. But then later on people stop asking me that. But I can tell from their facial expression that they they did not understand what I said. Like I can you know I'm talking? And then they are lost and you can see that.
Speaker 1:Oh my god okay, yeah, absolutely, sometimes you can build a silent treatment it just seem as though they just ignore what you're saying. Yeah, because for some people they don't know how to kind of address that they don't want to embarrass, they don't want to get you maybe offended.
Speaker 1:As we are learning the american culture, don't forget the american people are also trying to learn our culture and learn how to interact with us, because many of them have probably never um traveled out of here um to go do that and then we're going to probably talking. Talk about that because I've had many questions, even at the hospital and, by the way, I work in the team that is all like American and I am the only immigrant and I've had to give like lectures and talks about you know best way to kind of one or maybe better way to interact with someone and from another culture, so you don't um, you know, get somebody offended or stuff like that and um, it's just amazing the, the willingness that I actually see in people wanting to really learn about you know, this uniqueness or uniqueness of other people right, that work within the same space, that they work. So, if you do have that questions about, maybe it's going on in your mind or anybody's mind watching about. Yes, I think I've dealt with this before, but I really didn't know how to interact.
Speaker 1:Maybe, maybe I can be, of help and provide you some guidance on how to best interact with other people that might be from a different culture than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, that's really great. The other thing that I'm finding that a lot of immigrants struggle with is, like you know, a lot of us already finished college back home. But when we're coming here, it's like either you have to go back to school or, like you know, you have to go back to doing like many jobs when you had really good jobs back home, like and as an executive but because one way or the other, like the educational system maybe doesn't match up, or so you know, people are doing taxi driving, they're doing um security, and that that really weighs on their self-esteem Absolutely. So have you seen?
Speaker 1:some of that, yes, I have. As a matter of fact, I've seen a lot of that. So in as much as people will blame it on the educational level or quality back in wherever country they might be coming from, I think it's more so to do with the amount of information that people have. Again, I'm going to use myself. I like to really serve this close sometimes because I found it to be very helpful to the people that I work with and people that I interact with. So for me, for an example, I didn't have to go back to school here when I came to the US. It took a long process but I was able to bring all the documents that I have back home that I used to study and I was able to kind of qualify for taking the licensure exam. So if people can be patient and kind of dig a little bit more, there might just be opportunities, and it's not just me. I've heard of other people too A friend of mine that is also in California, oregon and those places how they are able to still be able to work professionally with the degrees that they brought from their own country and they are doing it. So I would encourage people just dig into information. Make phone calls. Don't be afraid to pick up that phone and call, whether a licensing board or organizations that are responsible for making certain decisions, emailing them over and over again board or organizations that are responsible for making certain decisions, emailing them over and over again. Sometimes you might be ignored, but do it again. So the more information you have, the more likelihood that you'll be able to navigate it.
Speaker 1:Another thing is also sometimes the course that you study in school can also be a very important factor in that, also be a very important fact or factor in that. So, for example, if somebody studies certain courses, it's not maybe, as what people would consider really unique here. So that's another thing to consider. But in any case, I would think that, no matter the course of study that you have studied, there has to be a way that you can fit into if not higher level positions, but at least middle level positions. Um, I don't think that people have to necessarily start from the bottom. Um, some people would have to and then kind of build upon their skills. Some other people, I think, might be able to just get into the system and start from somewhere, but definitely not like the lowest of lowest positions, but also maybe middle level, and they start to grow into the positions that they really want to.
Speaker 2:So tying that back to the mental health, like I can see how, for those that are that feel like they have to start over. You know, I know someone that they have you know the executive level in Nigeria. They're working for a bank, but then when they came here they had to start over and then down their security. I know multiple people that are, you know, starting out as a CNA. You know, or like um, what do they call? Yeah, cna, and all the things like I can just imagine, like the, the self-doubt that that brings on. You know, like my husband, you know, was a doctor in Nigeria practicing, but I we understand that the system will have to start over here, you know. So I remember having that conversation with him when we were deciding should I come back to Nigeria or should it. When it comes, you should call me back here, but I needed to make sure that he was okay, that, look, you have to start over in. You know, like have to take some of this exam.
Speaker 2:I was worried for his mental health because that means that for him as a, as a man of the house, he wouldn't be able to work. You know, because I was on a visa that didn't allow him to work. At the time, you know, and I remember our first year of our marriage was was kind of tough because my husband, who is a provider, who is a professional, who is a doctor in Nigeria, is sitting home and his wife is going out to go work to bring in money. And then it got to the time where I was even pregnant and he couldn't do much to help me. So I would see my husband just be like sometimes sad, but it didn't make me feel bad, but I could tell that he was struggling. So going back to that mental health, yeah, it is definitely.
Speaker 1:I am glad you raised that point. It's definitely um impact people's self-esteem, self-worth when you are already at a managerial position in your, your previous country or in your country of origin and you've kind of have grown to that level and have to come kind of start all over. Plus, you have to work with people that probably at some point that if you were not here in the US, for example, they probably wouldn't necessarily be able to make it through to your office without some certain protocols or processes that they have to go through. Yes, and I have also seen many immigrants too, for whatever, whatever reason, people would not seek help.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Some people don't even go to the hospital for just fear of the unknown and many things. So there are many people that are out there that, if you ask them, they've never been to a doctor's appointment.
Speaker 2:For years. So let's unpack that Right. Like you know, a lot of people that are coming from back home, we don't even see mental health as a disease. You know, and I think what you're trying to say is that we need to change that mindset too, because you know, we we used to like witchcraft or like your mother-in-law is the one doing you all of the things, but those are real problems that require professional help for yes, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you're absolutely right, people, people still believe that, but I think the narrative is also changing, um, because people are becoming more aware, more informed and, um, people are beginning to think of multiple ways of seeking help. Don't forget, when it comes to even the practice of mental health, we, as mental health professionals, we still encourage the holistic self, right? So when we talk about the holistic self, we cannot completely take away the spirituality and the religious aspect of someone's life if that's very important to them. But we also know that what makes somebody unique, or what makes somebody, what makes someone a complete entity, isn't just about the spiritual aspect of the person.
Speaker 1:So we're able to bring in the health we're able to bring in family support, social interaction and all of that.
Speaker 1:So, in as much as we respect the fact that people have religious beliefs and cultural beliefs that is very unique to them, we also encourage them to explore other opportunities that might be there for them to have a holistic life and, overall, an improved mental health to support their you know overall physical health and other aspects of their life too.
Speaker 1:So there is limitation to what we know. So, having practiced as a therapist here, we are just limited on the information that we have, especially when it has to do with the cultural beliefs of people. So it is kind of hard these days to now say oh well, it is not, that it is this. However, we do know that there are many factors that could lead to people developing mental health issues. Spirituality could be one of them, predispositions could be one of them and many other things. So, in as much as people have those spiritual beliefs, or people have those religious beliefs or cultural beliefs, I still encourage them to explore all possible possibilities that could be impact the way they're feeling, the way they're thinking, the way they're acting and stuff like that, and just seek holistic help, to help them improve themselves.
Speaker 2:So what would you say is the biggest mental health challenges that immigrants have?
Speaker 1:I think, first of all, it's just the fact that people many immigrants that I've interacted with does not know what it means to seek help. Now there is this community living back at least where I'm from, nigeria where people can talk about their problems and family members just intervene. It's a community, yeah, but the american system is very different. Right, even when you're talking to someone who you feel like you're close with, the person may not really be able to support you as much, just because of the baggages and things that people deal with. They have their own lives to live.
Speaker 1:So it is okay to talk to a stranger. As a matter of fact, I tell people, a stranger will not judge you right, most likely not because they don't know your personality, they don't know you, they don't they. That's, and the therapist has been. I've been trained, for example, to kind of just listen and that idea. Immigrants sometimes feel like that against spirituality, where you have to, or religiosity, where you have to mind and reject and rebuke and don't say negative things over yourself. It is okay to start to handle problems as they start.
Speaker 1:If I just like I went to work today. This happened. I think like this about myself now and I now feel sad and it's making me having difficulty getting out of bed. Can I talk to somebody about that Instead of like, okay, well, it doesn't matter, maybe I'm overreacting, and then it keeps piling up and piling up and piling up and just because the resiliency that our culture teaches us, it becomes really hard to now stoop to that point where we actually seek help. So people wait until things get out of hands, like really, really bad, before they go seek help and don't.
Speaker 1:When it comes to mental health issues, the best time to get the best of results is when you start to navigate these issues, and they are on. The more you wait, the more damage is being done to the brain, the more self-worth is being reduced, the more stress pile up, the more relationships start to fall apart. You know it just goes on and on. Meanwhile, if we were to just address these issues as they come and recognize that, okay, the american culture isn't like nigerian culture, for example, where somebody's available to you to give you hours of their time to just listen to you. Everybody is up and going easy here, so it's just okay to, to reach out and say, hey, I need to talk to someone about how I felt today or how I am feeling today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you. I think that we're built to be resilient. You know people will be like you're not tough, what's wrong with you? You are tough, like why you know things like that and it piles on, you know. So what I'm hearing you say is that the moment you come into this country, there's some challenges. We already know the language barrier, you know the accent barrier, you know all the things, but it's okay to talk to someone about it because perhaps you're not the only one going through that and people can help you. People like you that understand the cultural differences can understand, cause I think part of the problem is being afraid that the therapist would not understand their culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's absolutely true. So we've had instances at the hospital where people don't show up for their therapy sessions, maybe because they feel like this person wouldn't understand. However, the narrative is also changing. Even American therapists are now people's cultures and values. First of all, think about the norms that are standard in other people's country before you label something as a mental health disorder or stuff like that. So that is definitely. We call it cultural competency in therapy in the mental health field, and that is beginning to change.
Speaker 1:However, yes, people still have that fear for many reasons. I would feel comfortable to talk to somebody that is from my culture, who is a therapist, and I would someone. That isn't right. That is just natural, um, you would trust somebody you know that you think would understand a little bit more what you're experiencing than talking to a complete you know somebody that is not that have no idea. You know, um, what you're talking about. But, however, we also know that there are limitations. It's not always all the time that you will find a therapist from your culture that you could talk to. Believing and trusting that every therapist that you interact with to some point have been taught how to be culturally competent can make that huge difference in you still seeking help instead of not seeking help at all. So, no matter how small, the help that you're seeking is better than not seeking it out that's so good, that's really good.
Speaker 2:Now I know that some of the other problem is being labeled as having mental health disorder. You know, and I know you. I know you're gonna say that is changing too, but I'll be honest with you. Like you know, back home, if someone has mental health, it's like you know what I mean like.
Speaker 1:So I think what you're talking about here is stigma yeah, the stigma, so stigmatized, yes, the the society has put so much labeling and into mental health issues. For example, people with mental health disorders are dangerous.
Speaker 2:People with mental health disorders are to be feared.
Speaker 1:People with mental health disorders aren't reliable, they are not consistent, they can change anytime. Just that fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. But if people look at you from a perspective of, instead of what is wrong with this person, why don't we say what happened to this person? So the trauma component of things sometimes, when people a mental health disorder doesn't just come from the blues. People have had experiences. That is hard to navigate.
Speaker 1:Experiences that are very, very, very traumatic, that people probably haven't paid attention to. So if the society starts to kind of now talk about mental health disorder as like just having other illnesses, right, if somebody was to have cancer? We know that stress can also bring about cancer, right? Just the same thing as mental health. Are we going to stigmatize against somebody that have, you know, physical health issues um, as well. So people don't just wake up in the morning and start to have a mental health disorder there's been a lot that has happened in their life. If people can just take a moment so understand and just ask why, why is this person? How come right? What really happened to this person versus what is wrong with this person?
Speaker 2:you know so it's not about.
Speaker 1:It's just like somebody that the society have treated so unfairly when we ask that question what is wrong with the person?
Speaker 1:we also now make that victim becomes the perpetrator of this act. Meanwhile, it is actually the other way where this person has experienced so much pain, so much grief, maybe sorrow or even other things that the society, knowingly or unknowingly to this person, have put into this person. So, instead of taking that seat of a victim and we actually trying to understand what has happened to this person, what has been the experience that this person has had to experience in life, versus what is wrong to this person? What has been the experience?
Speaker 1:that this person has had to experience in life versus what is wrong with this person.
Speaker 2:I like that perspective because when you ask the question what happened, you know and you really seek genuinely to know what happened. You might find out how you can help prevent that for somebody else, absolutely, because, like so, as a Caucasian or American right, if you find out from an immigrant, okay, so what happened? And you realize that the struggle with their accent or like trying to get a better job is part of what led to that mental health situation. Like maybe that could help that person me, you know, be more, be kinder, you know what I mean, be you know what. Okay, I'm going to be to the next person when I hear someone with an accent or have, you know like I'm, I can help them, not compile the problem that eventually leads to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the way I encourage people to think about it is again using that walking in somebody's shoes.
Speaker 1:Think about your life, for a moment take a pause, think about your life and think about the possibility of you living america to go live thousands of miles away. You don't have families, you don't have friends and you don't have access to information. Kind of think about what it will look like for you to settle in the others the the problems you might possibly face, and kind of think about what it will look like for you to settle in the others, the problems you might possibly face, and kind of think about immigrants like that.
Speaker 1:So no matter how sophisticated, no matter how intelligent a first generation immigrant is, there's a lot of loopholes. There's a lot of bridges name it that needs to be overcome before they can actually use their potential to the fullest. Access to information is one of them. There are very limited information for immigrants when they first come into this country, at least in the state of Indiana, where people are here, they don't even know what to do. Now, we're not talking about people that are here illegally. We're talking about people that are here legally but have even know what to do right Now. We're not talking of people that are here illegally. We're talking of people that are here legally but have no idea what to do. They don't have access to resources, they don't have access to information. They don't even have access to simple things like how to register for Medicaid program. Many of them don't have access to health care. You know, just name it right. So there's just a lot of challenges that come with it and sometimes just actually asking that genuine question of how can I?
Speaker 1:help can really make a difference. Many, at least for most immigrants that I've interacted with, including, you know, the people that I currently work with at the hospital they just want a better life for themselves.
Speaker 1:They just want a better life for their family. They're hard workers. They are here. They don't cause trouble, for the most part, for their family. They're hard workers. They are here, they don't cause trouble for the most part, right, you know, and they just want to be here to help and support as much as they can. And I mean there is just a lot to do in terms of whether providing information, giving the call, pointing them to the right direction, and just really be curious to really get to know them and understand them. And one way we can do that is by asking questions. How can I help? You know? Just that simple questions. I can give you an example here. Victoria Someone was asking about I think it was like piercing your ears or something like that. It's not in the American culture for babies, especially female babies, to be born and then you have your ear pierced. Where I'm from is just part of the birthing process right.
Speaker 1:When you give birth to a baby, and then they just do it right.
Speaker 1:They're having their you know shorts and stuff like that. Well, when I came and gave birth to my second daughter in 2017, the ears were pierced right. And then, when I met a Nigerian and they're like, is this a boy? I'm like, no, it's not a boy, it's a girl. And they're like, no, no, no, the ear has to be pierced and stuff like that. And then they punched the ear and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And one day I was in the midst of friends at church and we're having conversation. We were talking about you know, I think it was a baby shower, and they were talking about piercing of the ear and stuff like that, and somebody asked a question about that. It wasn't so much about the question that was asked. That tipped me off. It was more so the way the question was asked. So, instead of using directional questions to like I bet in Nigeria, you guys have to pierce your ego with or without your permission, versus in nigeria, what was? It was the practice over there. So, even though you're asking the same questions, but you're really curious for me to educate you, but in the first instance, you're kind of like telling me what happens in my country, even though you've not been there.
Speaker 1:Well, you get what I mean. I bet, like you're certain that in my country, even though you've not, been there.
Speaker 2:Well, you get what I mean.
Speaker 1:I bet Like you're certain that that's it. So, even though it was framed as a question, but it wasn't a question, I found that a little bit offensive because I didn't think that was appropriate, right. So it would probably be better to just kind of twist the question a little bit, change the way you say it and say, hey, tell me about it, how does it work in Nigeria? And then I'll be more than happy to educate you, because I can see now that you're curious. So I think for a lot of people, when it comes to interacting with other people, that is not the same culture as you, and I would also think, even with people in the same culture. To just actually phrase your question, bearing in mind that the idea is for you to learn, especially when you don't know yeah, interior is for you to learn especially when you don't know yeah, versus saying it in a way as though you are you're judging, or you are, you know, or you know or you're setting, maybe you just read it in a book, maybe it's not true.
Speaker 1:Like in in Nigeria, for example, we have about 250 something ethnic groups yes it's just even hard to be in that country and think that you know everything happening like, you and I are not even from the same part.
Speaker 2:Exactly, we don't speak the same language, but we are from Nigeria, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I encourage people to genuinely be curious about getting to know people, getting to know, understand their culture by just, you know, asking in a way that is not so directional but open-minded and, you know, open-ended.
Speaker 2:Wow, yes, oh, my God, you've given us so much information today, and so, for those people that are watching and they are maybe new or know someone that is new to this country what are some of the things that they can use to identify that? Okay, I need to go seek help for this. We've talked about a lot of them, but if you can summarize it like some of the common things that you can shouldn't brush aside as you know don't worry, I'm tough enough like that you think that if they are noticing this and it's causing a certain feeling, or they should seek help?
Speaker 1:yeah. So I think the the first thing that would be on the list would be worrying. When you have excessive worrying, you know uncertainties, where you are beginning to have difficulties sleeping at night, just because your mind is all over the place thinking about the things that you need to do that you haven't been able to do, or kind of just thinking about, you know, just worrying about everything, right? So when there's not a sexy worry that is not beginning to affect your sleep, affect your daily functioning, um, bringing you a lot of sadness where you find yourself just crying for no reason, um, or you just find yourself losing interest in even taking care of yourself, like it's hard to get up from bed.
Speaker 1:Usually anxiety and depressive disorders will kind of start that way when you are also noticing significant changes in your in the way you're thinking, or in the way you're feeling, or just getting very irritable at some point, like over and over.
Speaker 1:So those would be signs of early. Those would be early signs to kind of tell you something might be going on that might require me to talk to someone, especially if it's lasted for like two weeks or even more. It might be the best time to kind of talk to your primary care physician, if you have one, to say, hey, I think I would like to talk to a therapist. Now gone are the days when people think that you know you have you talk to a therapist when you have a mental health disorder. Now I want to. I want to clarify that, thank you.
Speaker 1:A mental health disorder can be a diagnosis where there is a labor. Well, we don't necessarily treat diagnosis anymore, we treat the symptom. Okay, if somebody is beginning to have difficulty sleeping, that's a symptom, early stage symptom of any, any mental health disorders. If somebody is beginning to have heart palpitations from just thinking about what the future could look like, we we may not label it anxiety, may not even meet the criteria for diagnosing anxiety. However, it could be a symptom of something that's already going on that, if not taken care of, can progress into anxiety.
Speaker 1:If somebody is and this can be everyday experiences right, we all get worried, we all get anxious, you know, but when it's kind of like causing some problems or impacting our daily functioning, that is when we want to start to kind of touch on those things by just talking to someone about it and saying, hey, I have not been able to sleep for two days, I'm not sure what's going on. So kind of just pinpointing and paying more attention to yourself, noticing the changes that you're seeing and taking them very seriously, because it can be really lonely and quiet living in a different culture, especially a culture like America. It can be really quiet, really isolated. Even so, it's best to pay attention to how you're feeling and advocate for yourself. I tell people advocate for yourself. Sometimes we've had many, I've interacted with a lot of immigrants that for some reason or another, they try to talk to maybe a doctor about something that was going on, and they were just brushed up. They were not taken seriously, and one example is that people from Nigeria, for example.
Speaker 1:We have very high, strong threshold for pain, so if a Nigerian tell you that they are having pain, you take them very, very seriously, that's not by 12.
Speaker 1:So if they, tell you the pain. If you say, can you rate your pain level from 0 to 10, and they say it's 5, take it as a 9. Yeah, take it as a 9 because it does a lot of pain, right? So just again, being curious, like we said before, to kind of understand that nuances and advocating for yourself, people are going to either ignore or maybe not because they want to, but because they are afraid they don't know how to approach your specific circumstance. They are afraid to make mistakes or say the wrong things or not say the wrong thing.
Speaker 1:Just continue to advocate for yourself if you have to say it 10 times if you have to say it three times, if you have to demonstrate it, if you have to write it in as much as your needs are being met as an immigrant, I would say stand up for yourself, advocate for yourself.
Speaker 1:Sometimes the people that are in front of you may not really, because they don't understand it right, and if they are not showing that interest to understand, it is now your responsibility to make sure that they understand. Um, and I can't tell you how many times that I've had to stand up for myself in my professional life, in my personal life, constantly talking about it, to the point that sometimes I was named the troublemaker. But it's working right because, again, whoever that I've interacted with, they are not bad people. It just means they don't understand me, they don't understand my culture. So, instead of trying to blame them, I first started thinking about it as okay. How can I help this person understand right? How can I get what I want? Why I'm being patient with this person, explaining it to this person, using multiple ways?
Speaker 1:right so I've self-advocacy is definitely key that's good.
Speaker 2:So for those people that are immigrants and having issues, self-advocacy and then also for the people on the other side you're saying be patient enough to try and understand, ask the question, be curious about what happened. Yes, you know so. So I'm glad that we balanced the two sides of the coin absolutely okay.
Speaker 2:So we have talked about advocating for yourself, seeking help, but we know that there's so many people that are afraid or they don't even know who to call. I want to say, now that you are the person to call, you know, if at least you know, call you and you can, you know, show them the direction, and things like that, so can you tell us how you can, what help you can help offer to our immigrant, immigrant community.
Speaker 1:So I can do a few things right for those of us that are in the state of indiana.
Speaker 1:I am licensed in the state of Indiana so I can practice whether you know me as a person, or even refer you to the right places, so I can definitely provide direct services. I do that. Another way that I can support can be just pointing you the right direction. I have a lot of resources and information under my belt that I can share with folks to refer them to the right places for whatever they need, be it whether legal help, mental health related help, even social resources and other resources that may need in the community, or how to even just link them to the right health facility for whatever they need. So I do have that. There's also other resources like housing, if somebody is going through stress of not knowing what to do. Employment resources is also there. So I kind of have I've been fortunate or blessed to work with a team that have that. We have a lot of information regarding that area here in the state of indiana to support now if you you are outside of Indiana and you are wondering how you can be of help.
Speaker 1:I also have a network of therapists that I have worked with in the last few years not just therapists, mental health providers that if I don't know someone directly in the state that you're in, I can ask a colleague that probably knows somebody there that can provide us information. So it's just more like having the resources that you need. It doesn't have to be me providing the services, but you can have somebody wherever you're located and you won't have them do that for you. Um and um for immigrants too, for people that have family members here but they are back home and not sure how to handle any mental health related issues that they are loved because that's sure how to handle any mental health related issues that their loved one has.
Speaker 2:That's another level, that's another level right there.
Speaker 1:I've had many calls from people just saying that, hey, I don't know how to support a family member that is back there. We are back in Nigeria and this is the struggle, so we're also here to give us a call. If we are not able to kind of provide that direct service, we can point them to the right direction.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. So what about? I know you do speaking workshops for people, organizations that want to be more educated and help this community of people, so tell us a little bit about some of the services.
Speaker 1:So I do a lot of consultation work, seminar and speaking workshop organizing. Well, I don't organize it, but I show as a speaker or as a facilitator in workshops. If you have like a group that you want someone to talk to about mental health and how to navigate the stress that comes with being a first generation immigrant, give me a call. I will be more than happy to speak in your platform and provide more information there. If you also have like other groups too, maybe you even have like campus students or students that are just needing support in that regard, having someone to come talk to them, I can do that as well. Or you just want to organize a lunch on this seminar for your employees? Give me a call too. I can talk to them about mental health, how that can improve or how that can impact their work and improve productivity overall in your workplace, and how people can take care of their holistic self to continue to help you meet your organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's amazing, and I'm going to put all of your contact information there, so watch out for that. So one other thing that I wanted to mention I know you don't just do the talking, you actually do the doing. I do, and part of that is, uh, as part of your other business. You know you have a cleaning business, a thriving cleaning business, here in Indiana um, both residential and commercial right and I know you do amazing work. Tell us a little bit about some of the things that you've done. That also impacted mental health too.
Speaker 1:So I think it all goes together. We know how important a clean space can impact our health.
Speaker 1:So, whether physical health, mental health. So when I started a cleaning business, my goal was to kind of take away that burden and stress that comes with that, so that people can focus on things that truly matters in their life, and I cannot begin to share the stories of how people are just grateful about how we help them improve their health physical, mental, name it since we started cleaning for them. So, yes, I do do that, and we also help non-profit organizations. We partner with them called Cleaning for a Reason, where we provide free cleaning services to individuals that have been diagnosed with cancer in our community, and in 2023, for example, we were able to clean 13 homes 13 homes For free. Wow, the stories just keep going and our clients are just really happy to see that. That's one thing they didn't have to worry about when they were taking care of their health and doing that. So it all goes back to mentoring.
Speaker 2:Think about it.
Speaker 1:Imagine it. Sometimes I like to do this a lot. Just close your eyes for a moment. Imagine you just coming to a home that has already been cleaned, spotless, ready for you to just enjoy Having a busy day. You've been out, whether taking care of the kids, doing your business, running a business as a manager, whatever that looks like. Just imagine a moment where you come into your home and everything is spotless.
Speaker 2:And all you just need to do is to step in relax, and enjoy. I'm telling you that's.
Speaker 1:That's the one of the greatest mental health stress. You know um benefit, I would say benefits somebody could possibly have just knowing that you don't have to deal with all of that. So it goes back to just wanting to make people's life easier, letting people know that it doesn't have to be so chaotic. Right, it's part of self-care Hiring someone to come take care of things like your kids. It's just. It can be too much. It's just self-care. So going at the days when people consider having a cleaning service as a luxury.
Speaker 2:It's not a luxury anymore.
Speaker 1:It's a necessity If you are busy, if you need time for your family and you need your sanity and you want to improve your mental health. I don't see any self-care that could be better than that.
Speaker 2:You know, I agree with you the sanity part, especially because and I, you know, I've used your services, so I know that when I walk in the door I don't have like everything is just clean because we are coming in with a lot of baggage and stress, right. But you come in and you're like, oh yep, that's one thing you don't have to worry about that's. That's such an amazing feeling. So, and thank you so much.
Speaker 1:13 homes cleaned last year, 2023 yes oh, and then last year we were able to donate two percent of our profit. Wow so, indiana, pakistan's foundation that's amazing, so we are also working towards like we want to continue it every year where we are giving a certain percentage of our profit to a local non-profit um to just support the good work that they do, and that was really inspired by clients that we were working with that had parkinson's disease and was just struggling.
Speaker 1:So we kind of were able to kind of come as a company to support, um, the indiana pakistan's foundation.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, stuff like that so not only do you help with cleaning, you also give money, and then you also help in the practice of it as well. Absolutely, oh my god, talk about being well-rounded, well rounded.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and sometimes do I ask myself how I do all those things. But you know when, when you're when you're doing something that is really really important, very important work, impactful, impactful and you just continue to hear the positive stories. You just keep pushing and doing it because you can see, you're just seeing the impact you're making every day. And, yeah, and I'm really grateful for the amazing team that I have I couldn't have done this by myself, trust me, without them, right?
Speaker 1:so they are up and running. Sometimes, if we have to go do something on the weekend, I have a few people that are willing to just stand up and like, yeah, we got this, let's do this, you know. So I'm really grateful for the team that I can't claim the service kudos to you guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for coming on like. I feel like this conversation has been very eye-opening and I hope that someone out there you've learned something. You know mental health is real. It's no longer a stigma. If you need help, go for help, and we have a wonderful resource here. She's saying call me, I got you, you know. So until next time, make sure you take care of yourself, because your mental health starts with you. You know, being healthy mentally starts with you, so get help or call effie. She will help you out. All right, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:thank you, victoria, it was just an honor pleasure being here. I appreciate every work that you do putting spotlight into some of these very interesting topics and I'm just really blessed to have you in my life, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:You're doing such a wonderful job and I appreciate you so much. I just enjoy how our kids work. You know, play together.
Speaker 1:Auntie Victoria, auntie you know all of that. So thank you, thank you, yeah.
