OWN YOUR BRAND SHOW with Victoria Odekomaya

She Helped Save 90 Black Settlements No One Knew Existed | Epi 87

• Victoria Odekomaya | LiMStudios Network • Episode 87

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Eunice Trotter started as a teenager interning at the Indianapolis Recorder. She ended up owning it. Then she became the Director of the Black Heritage Preservation Program at Indiana Landmarks, where she works to document, protect, and preserve the Black history of Indiana before it disappears.
 
In this episode of The Own Your Brand Show, Victoria Odekomaya sits down with Eunicenfor a conversation about history, legacy, journalism, preservation, and the work that most people do not even know is happening right here in Indianapolis.
 
In this episode you will hear:

  • How Eunice went from teenager intern to owning the Indianapolis Recorder
  • The discovery of 90 Black settlements in Indiana before the Civil War
  • Why so much Black history has been erased and what it takes to recover it
  • The book she wrote about her great great grandparents navigating enslavement, told in their own voices
  • The Cultural Collective and the hub for Black heritage and culture she is building
  • What the three Cs and the big T framework reveals about why preservation is so hard
  • The oral history database being built to serve communities a hundred years from now

Eunice's full feature is in the Legacy Issue of Boss Ladies Magazine.
Read and Watch at www.thelimstudios.com/blm4v2
 
Subscribe to the LiMStudios YouTube channel for more content from the Legacy Issue.
 
To learn more about Indiana Landmarks visit https://www.indianalandmarks.org/
Follow Eunice on Instagram: @trottereunice
Follow Eunice on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eunice-trotter-1376a711
 
The Legacy Issue of Boss Ladies Magazine is proudly sponsored by @FringeAndForm

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ABOUT

Victoria Odekomaya is a Nigerian American entrepreneur, speaker, and content marketing strategist on a mission to help business owners grow their business, brand, and legacy through the power of storytelling and strategic content marketing.

She’s the founder of LiMStudios, a full-service creative agency and state-of-the-art content studio in Indianapolis where strategy and storytelling come together through high-quality content production and marketing implementation. She’s also the creator of Boss Ladies Magazine and host of The Own Your Brand Show, a video podcast to help business owners grow their business, brand, and legacy through strategic content marketing and authentic conversations about the entrepreneurial journey. 

To learn more, follow her journey through LiMStudios, Boss Ladies Magazine, and The Own Your Brand Show and join the movement to amplify voices, build legacy, and make impact.

Work with Victoria: https://f.mtr.cool/qmicsevjhv

📩 For Guest, sponsorship or inquiries:
 mtr.bio/limstudios | hello@thelimstudios.com | Text 260-777-7211

Loss, Integrity, And A Remarkable Guest

SPEAKER_01

So much of our history has been a loss. You know, we have to, as a people, have a long tolerance for the lack of integrity.

Victoria Odekomaya

It's been a lot of changes over time. Telling the stories of preserving them, moving forward in the reason why it's so important that we teach our kids their characters. Are we even still supposed to be allowed to use the word meeting? Hello and welcome to another episode of the Own Your Brand Show. It's your girl Victoria Odeko Maya, and today I have royalty. I have a legend in the studio, and I am so honored to have this amazing woman who is the first African-American woman to edit the Indianapolis star here in Indianapolis. But she is a wealth of knowledge in the area of journalism and also Black heritage. So today I am super excited to get into our history, the work that she does, and the impact she's making in the community. So without much ado, let's get into it. Hi, Miss Eunice. How are you doing today? Hi, Miss Victoria. How are you doing? I'm fine, thank you. Thank you so much for coming. I've been sitting out here just listening to you, and I feel like I'm just absorbing all absorbing all the you know the knowledge, and just sitting with you is an honor. So thank you for coming. Thank you for allowing me to be here. Absolutely. So we have to say that. So we had this originally scheduled for, I don't know, like a few weeks ago. And Miss Eunice calls me saying, I'm in the hospital, I've been in a car accident, and she was trying to apologize and wanting to reschedule. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Oh my goodness. So like I I just appreciate you that even though you, I mean, you just you're so you're so humble and so you know, have that humility to even feel like you had to call because even though you are in a big within a big crisis, you know, and you didn't have to call, you know. So I appreciate that so much about you. And I think like it speaks to the character of who you are. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. That's so kind of you to say that.

SPEAKER_01

I'm also happy that you are feeling so much better. Everything is fine. Everything is fine. I we were talking earlier, and uh, you know, I noted that God is a provider and a protector. Yes, and so I came out of this car accident, which was a total loss with not one scratch. Wow. And uh they forced me to go to the hospital. So when I called you, I was at the hospital not wanting to be there, ever, of course, but uh look at the nurses in the background too. I'm like, why is she calling? On a gurney in the middle of the hall. And there were two people with COVID in there at the same time. I was like, get me out of here. I am fine. Leave the hospital sick.

Victoria Odekomaya

Wow, yeah, right. You don't want that.

Launching Black Heritage Preservation Work

Victoria Odekomaya

Wow. So I want to get into your um your career, into your, you know, everything that you do. You were recently also awarded in the Champions of Impact Award. You won that too. So congratulations on many of your accomplishments. Um, you are currently working with the Indian app Indiana Landmark. Yes. So tell us a little bit about the CS.

SPEAKER_01

I work with Indiana Landmarks, and Indiana Landmarks is the largest preservation organization, private preservation organization in the country. And I am director of a new program there called the Indiana Landmarks Black Heritage Preservation Program. And so I've been doing that for the last four years and having a great time. This is my third career. You know, I'm supposed to be retired on the beach in the Bahamas or in Nigeria or someplace, you know. But no, I'm still working, working very hard, uh, trying to preserve our history and heritage.

Victoria Odekomaya

Which is so important, which I feel like just getting to know you a little bit before we get started, I think it made sense to me that you're in this field, right? We're talking a little bit about your history, your great-great, great, great grandma. Like maybe we just kind of start from there. Okay.

Indiana Enslavement And A Landmark Lawsuit

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. So, like, how did you even get to Indiana? Well, my family, as far as my research has been able to show, uh, came from the motherland to Virginia, to Indiana. Um, and so I can track my lineage back to the late 1700s in southern Indiana. And um, when they came, they were came, they came here as enslaved people. Um they were not supposed to be enslaved because Indiana was supposed to be a free state. And that freedom was spelled out in the old Northwest Territorial Ordinance and later in Indiana's state uh charter and you know, and in the state's constitution. But slavery existed here in Indiana. And um one of my um ancestors who we were talking about, Mary Bateman Clark, um, filed a lawsuit in 1821. And this lawsuit was to free her from indentured servitude. That's what it was called, indentured servitude, not slavery, but it was the same thing. You were indentured by contract for 30, 60, 90 years, and you were required to work uh for no pay. You had a place to live and something to eat. That was it. So it was no different than slavery. And, you know, these contracts were were uh able to be sold and willed to heirs and so forth, uh, just as, you know, slavery existed in in the South. Uh so you know, Indiana being above the Mason Dixon line, no slavery. She sued uh the person who held her in bondage, she won that suit in a state Supreme Court decision.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So I wrote a book about it because to me that's history that should be taught. Absolutely. That this was an important state Supreme Court decision. And along with another uh Supreme Court decision uh regarding this case known as the Polly case, it was the Polly Strong case. They became book-end cases that helped end slavery so that when other enslaved African Americans wanted to be freed from bondage, they only had to go to the lower courts. The lower courts would rule and then they could be freed from those contracts.

Victoria Odekomaya

Wow, wow, that's interesting. So tell us a little bit about this book. What's the name of the book?

SPEAKER_01

The book is called Black in Indiana, and it is uh, I call it a love story because it is about uh the trials of my uh great-great-great-grandparents in navigating enslavement and how they lived and what they did. And I was able to base a lot of uh storytelling on actual legal documentation, um, you know, court filings and so forth that spelled out their condition. And then I was able to give them voice because it's a historical fiction, which means I can let them do some talking. Right. And usually, usually when our history is written, it is written in a narrative form where the people who are actually involved in these slavery cases never have an opportunity to say anything about their condition. So this allowed me as a historical fiction to let them talk. So I let them talk. So it's a love story. It talks about their love for each other, how they supported one another, what the consequences were, what the obstacles were to them being able to get freedom. And uh, so it was a good time writing it.

Victoria Odekomaya

I love that because as I'm listening to you, I know that you have a huge career in journalism. And then also with the work you do now with Black Heritage, it's like a perfect merge between the two. Like, you know, the historical part of it, but also with your journalism bringing it together.

SPEAKER_01

Well, journalism, you think about it, it's like writing the first draft of historical documents. You know, as they call we call it the first draft of history. So as things go on day to day uh that are reported by a journalist, those things become historical documents a hundred years from now. Yeah so it's all storytelling. That's right. And so that's what I do now. I do a lot of storytelling, not as in lies, but as in truth.

Victoria Odekomaya

That's right, that's right. And you get to uncover a lot of black heritage that is being forgotten.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Erased History And Black Settlements

SPEAKER_01

So much of our history has been erased. Um, and that has been a challenge. Uh, because you have to first know that history is there to preserve it or to restore it or to protect it. So if you don't know that it was there, how how do you have anything to protect or preserve?

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So the first step is to preserve it, and we do that through oral history harvest.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

We also um have been able to identify 90 black settlements in Indiana before the Civil War. 90. 9-0. Wow. Black settlements before the Civil War. And some of them were like Roberts Settlement in Hamilton County, Lick Creek in Orange County, Lau Station in Gibson County, Weaver Settlement in Marion, Indiana. And these these settlements were places where African Americans lived together to have community and to survive. And so over time these settlements became abandoned as you know, civil rights were gained and job opportunities came up, the people left these settlements and abandoned them. So most of them now have been abandoned, but there's still evidence that they existed. There might be a cemetery there, or there might be an old church or an old schoolhouse there that's no longer being used for those purposes. Uh, and they, you know, are the then the evidence. So then once we know there's that evidence, we can identify them as a settlement, and then we can begin the research to determine who lived there and how they lived there, and what they accomplished and what they face, and just to tell the stories of those communities.

Victoria Odekomaya

Wow. I you know, uh tell us about the most fascinating things that you've discovered.

SPEAKER_01

Oh boy, lots of things, I tell you. Um

Greenlawn Cemetery And Hidden Indianapolis

SPEAKER_01

well, one thing that's just been recently uh uncovered is the fact that there was a colored cemetery here in Indianapolis dating back to 1821, uh, when that cemetery opened. Because there was African American presence here in Indianapolis. That's the year the city was founded.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And that cemetery is located in downtown Indianapolis. It's across from Lucas Oil Stadium, and it's in a big field that is being now developed for a bridge and for another development.

Victoria Odekomaya

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And it is the first cemetery for everyone. And we understand that there is an area in that cemetery that was designated for African Americans or colored people, and that's what it was called. It was the colored cemetery within a larger cemetery. And actually, Green Line Cemetery in downtown Indy is comprised of four cemeteries.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So the city has just completed an excavation of the part that it controls, which is 1.5 acres of a 24-acre site.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And so that means that there are people still underground, no headstones, no indication that it's a cemetery over the rest of that of that cemetery. A lot of the people have been removed and reinterred at other cemeteries over the years and generations. But we believe thousands or more people are still there. So that's probably one of the more fascinating things. And then in doing the research for Green Line Cemetery, um, and it was not just me doing research, there are others. We have a group of people uh led by a uh researcher's name is Dwayne Perry.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But doing that research, we have just been uncovering some fascinating history. Um we have located so much information about uh Augustus Turner, in whose home Bethel AMA Church was founded. And so many others, you know, the first black Masons, entrepreneurs, business people, inventors. The great great great grandfather of Muhammad Ali was buried there.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And so, you know, we would never know that kind of information without knowing first that it existed. That's right. And then doing the research to find out more about it. And that's that's the nature of this work. It's it's always you know a treasure hunt. And you know, you you never know what gold you're gonna uncover once you start digging.

Victoria Odekomaya

And it sounds like you you you it's fascinating to you, like you enjoy too. I love this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this is my this is my retirement job, but I tell you, I work harder now than I did when I was 30. You know,

Grants That Keep Black Churches Standing

SPEAKER_01

because it's so much, it's it doesn't stop. So in addition to doing preservation of history, we preserve actual building sites. Um we do that by advocating for and also providing resources to building owners.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So we give grants to uh Black Heritage sites. Most of the Black Heritage sites that remain uh in our communities are churches. And so many of these churches now are struggling to stay uh open. Not only because you know the congregations have dwindled, particularly after COVID, but also because the buildings are falling apart and they don't have the money to put on a new roof that's gonna cost fifty thousand dollars or a new furnace because the old boiler finally went out to replace the windows where all the cold air is blowing in, causing the heat bill to be hundreds of maybe thousands of dollars. So, you know, the grants help restore those buildings, um, and we were really fortunate uh for the start of the program to have been funded by um the Lilly Endowment.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

The Lilly Endowment gave uh Indiana Landmarks a $5 million grant, four million of which is an endowment for operating costs. So there's a little bit pinched off for my salary and some other operating expenses. But then the $1 million is spread out over five years, and that provides $200,000 a year in grant funding statewide. So it is not a lot of money because you think about it, one building can cost you $100,000 to restore by itself, but it is a big help. So we've been able to provide uh nearly $700,000 in grant funding to about 85 different recipients over the four years of the program. So it's it's been a big help to preserving our history and our our our sites. So we do other things too. We do a lot of education. Yeah. Yeah, we do um just last night, in fact, uh, we uh partner with different groups, and so last night we were partnering with Freetown Village for uh what Freetown calls uh conversations in history.

UNIA, NAACP, And Colorism Debates

SPEAKER_01

Okay, and so we focused on uh the Universal Negro Improvement Association. So most people say, what's that? I was gonna ask what is the U what is the UNIA? That's right.

Victoria Odekomaya

Well the universal Are we even still supposed to be allowed to use the word Negro?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that was okay. Because you know what, Negro was a word that was used for upper class, educated black people. That's what they wanted to be called Negro.

SPEAKER_03

Oh I see.

SPEAKER_01

So universal Negro improvement. So it was better than color, it was better than black at that time.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So we're talking the early 1900s, the 19 teens, during that period. That was called the Golden Era. And during that period, um, there was more progress made by African Americans than any known period in history. So from the 1910s to the 1930s, 40s. But at the same time, um others uh called it the Progressive Era. And so uh as it relates to black folks calling it the Golden Era, this was a time during the Harlem Renaissance, during a lot of the great thinkers like W. E. B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington, Ida B. Wells. It was a time when there were many organizations created for African Americans, including the UNIA. The NAACP was created during that time, and most people don't realize that the NAACP was formed mostly by white people. And so the NAACP and the UNIA would clash over the philosophies and the values. Now they both wanted to get to the same goal of having equality and freedom for for black people. But how we got there was the difference. For for the NAACP, it was through uh equality, civil rights, taking issues to court if necessary, a patient progression. For the UNIA, it was why are you worried about integrating yourself? Do your own thing, have your own communities, be unapologetically black, uh, teach your own children, have your own businesses, you know. And so that was the difference. There were also issues related to colorism between the two organizations.

Victoria Odekomaya

Tell me, tell me more about that. This is very fascinating.

SPEAKER_01

Well, colorism is the issue all over the globe. Right. Every race has a bit of it. Um so it the the lighter the skin, the more acceptable, the better you, the beautiful beautiful you, the smarter, all of that you are. Well, with with the these two organizations, UNIA and NAACP, it was also a class issue. Um the UNIA wanted all people as a part of the organization. So it had the educated, talented tenth of black people as well as the uneducated, as well as the new immigrant that just came off of a farm in Mississippi or Alabama or somewhere. It was come one, come all. The only qualified qualification was to be black. And so for the NAACP, um the qualification was that you be educated, that you, you know, be willing to work within the organization, that you have money to pay for membership. It did not cost anything to be in UNIA. And so it taught that going back to Africa was a good thing. Being resilient, being separated, taking care of one another, spending your money with each other's businesses was a good thing. We don't want to live in Carmel or Fisher's. If the UNIA was alive today, that's that would be part of their values. And we don't want to live where you are because you don't want us there. We will live in our own communities, we will take care of our own communities. Right.

Victoria Odekomaya

Wow. That's so interesting. I feel like I'm learning so, so much. Like, I mean, I'm originally from Nigeria, and you know, I have a different perspective of how things obviously, first of all, I'm not even old enough, but still, right, I see it from a different point of view, right? But what you're explaining, like it's it's so important to learn that because there's been a lot of changes over time, and if we're not telling the stories or preserving them, moving forward, we're gonna lose a lot of them. Oh, yeah, definitely. Like I tell my kids that you know they are African American, Nigerian, and you know, American, but I also try to tell them like you have to still learn the culture of Nigeria. And then even here, too, like all of these things, because at the end of the day, they're still black.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. You know, anyone coming to this country doesn't matter what language you speak. You're black. Right.

Victoria Odekomaya

So just learning all of that is so important so we know where we're coming from. Because in one of the one of the things in my culture is like if you don't know where you're coming from, you never like the it's like they say that if the river that forgets its origin will just run dry. Yes. So you have to know your culture, what makes you, how you got here, so that when you're going forward, you're more prepared, you're like more educated, where you're more, you know, like you're grounded. You're grounded, yes.

SPEAKER_01

You're you're confident, your self-esteem is intact. Right. You know, you you know who you are.

Victoria Odekomaya

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Uh saying kulfa. You know, looking back while you're going forward. You know, that's why that bird's head is turned around this way in Sankofa, you know. So it's it's um it's so important that we teach our kids their heritage and their roots, that which we know. Uh unfortunately for uh for many African Americans, that is not possible because of how we came to be in this country. But it does not re it does not remove that DNA from our blood. Yes. Even though many African Americans, I have learned, are mixed, triracial, malungin, whatever you want to call it. Uh, but so is everybody else with everything, you know, particularly even in Africa because there was so much colonization.

Victoria Odekomaya

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And so that means you got all kinds of different mixtures going on there too.

Victoria Odekomaya

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But we're still black.

Victoria Odekomaya

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And so we we are still black. You know, and here in here in America, the rule was one drop. Oh yeah. I don't care how white you look, one drop. And so, because of the mixture of people, the amalgamation, there there are, there were many black people who passed as white. And they became white. And it's so funny when I when I trace people's family lines and I I I trace to the point when they became white. It's so funny. Because then eventually some of that black starts showing through in the line. You can't hide. Oh my God. How did that get there? But you know, it's um, you know, race is this political construct anyway. Yeah. You know, because when I'm not in this country, I am American.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's what people call me. They don't say black American. They just say American.

SPEAKER_02

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

Because that's how you are associated in in other countries. But here in this country, race is important. Race matters. And so, you know, I have friends from all over the world and always say, You're still black, okay. You can put on all that accent if you want to, that policeman stops you. It doesn't do any good, okay? I have a sister, she's so funny. When we grew up, she would, she, she's really good at mocking people's accents. And so she could do Jamaican accents, she can do uh Sudanese, African, she could do, she she could mock accents really well. So she she would start doing these various accents, talking about how she was from Jamaica, now, you know. Because people don't know where you're from. Open your mouth, they don't.

Victoria Odekomaya

They don't. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm fascinated. I want to ask

Race, Passing, And Who Controls Records

Victoria Odekomaya

the question about how you even got into journalism. Like, how did that happen? Like, did you, when you were growing up, did you always had anything that you know made you feel like you needed to go into that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, um, some of my family members were journalists. Okay. Uh I had a my grandfather's brother, was a newspaper columnist. Um another great uncle was an owner of a newspaper here called the Indianapolis World. And so, but but my personal desire was to be a policewoman. That's what I was gonna be doing. Okay, and I was gonna work with kids. That was what I was gonna do. Uh-huh. I was gonna be a policewoman, I was gonna work with kids.

Victoria Odekomaya

And um Well, why did you want to be a police officer?

SPEAKER_01

Well, because they had power. Oh, you know, and they had impact. They had power and impact. And uh so, and I knew that there were not very many African American policewomen as I grew up.

Victoria Odekomaya

Uh even now, too, really.

SPEAKER_01

Even now, really, even now. You rarely you don't see them out there hardly at all.

Victoria Odekomaya

Yeah, especially African-American woman, police officers.

SPEAKER_01

But I wanted to work with kids and be a policewoman, like in the juvenile section.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But I that I got uh sidetracked.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And uh so when I was a teenager, I became an intern at the Indianapolis Recorder. Okay. And so it was on Indiana Avenue, which has been erased now from its farmer state. And um, you know, I uh I I looked at uh just all of the the difference that being in that business could make. The storytelling, the advertising, the promoting, the documenting that is done in media. And so that that began to interest me, and I like writing. And so it kind of went together, and I that's how I got into the newspaper business.

Victoria Odekomaya

So then you started as an intern and eventually owned the Yeah, the Yeah, that that's something, that's a story.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the the newspaper where I started as an intern, I eventually ended up having the controlling interest and owning it.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And that was the Indianapolis Recorder, and uh it still exists today, it's one of the oldest um African American newspapers in the country. And there's a nice young man, Robert Shigak, who's now the publisher there. He's doing a great job. We we actually collaborate with them often. Oh, good, yeah. Good, good. Yeah, he's a nice guy. Yes, he is. Yeah, so he's he's um he's doing a great job. Always fuss the different reporters now because they don't report the news like we used to report it. You know, the newspaper used to be the place where you could find out who was born, who died, who had a party, who graduated from school, who was getting there. None of that is in newspapers anymore. That's one of the reasons I think newspapers aren't as popular as they used to be. Because they don't have the kind of information that people need and want. Right. You know, you gotta go look on social media for.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

We were talking earlier about obituaries. There's if you if you die in this community, uh good luck in getting the word out, you better go on Facebook.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Because otherwise you have to pay three, four, five, six hundred dollars to get an obituary in a newspaper. And so it's bad because this is taking away a significant research tool that we won't have in 50 years, 100 years when you're doing research.

Victoria Odekomaya

Unless we then start doing research on on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01

But who's who's storing Facebook content? That's true. And how do you access it? You know? Oh yeah. Where do you go to get historical information? You know, even things I put on Facebook five years ago, I can't find. Yeah. Where is it? What happens to them? So it's really interesting. I don't know that technology enough to know what happens with content. Right. But I do know it's not easily accessible.

Victoria Odekomaya

Well, the other piece of it is like who's controlling it, right? Like if they are not invested in wanting to share the heritage or the research from it, they're not gonna release that information. Because like Facebook has a storage where they're all of the things, like we know anything on the internet never goes away. But like, are they willing to make that accessible?

SPEAKER_01

Well, there's the key right there. Exactly. You know, and newspapers were. So it's uh, you know, I was talking, if somebody would make a lot of money having an obituary publication, it might be me. Right. Because I might be ready to go into career number four. Because there's such a need. I find out so often about passing a friends a week later, two weeks later, on Facebook or Instagram or something, you know. So there's that information is just is to be out there.

From Newsrooms To Black History Storytelling

Victoria Odekomaya

Yeah. Wow. So then you moved away from that. And then I know you said you also were in the entrepreneur for a little bit. Well, that's when you owned the recorder, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then I also owned a uh public relations company.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So I did the uh publicity for Black Expo, Black Chamber, Urban League, just a different, just an array of organizations. Uh Wilma Rudolph, who was, I don't know if you know who she is, but she was an Olympic star from here. Okay. And so I was her PR person and just a number of organizations and individuals. So I would do press releases for them and clean up their resumes and do stuff. Uh, and then I began publishing little short videos, okay, which is totally out of my well house, but I learned to do it. Um, and um I would do the script write the research and the script writing, worked with uh different organizations, including Freetown Village.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So right now, if you go to um YouTube and you you Google or you search for Freetown and Black History moments, you will see a whole series of black history facts about Indiana. Uh, for example, uh, there is a street in downtown Indianapolis called Perrier Street, P-U-R-Y-E-A-R. It is right across the street from the Central Library. And that street was named for this black man who was on the council. Nobody knows that. You know, and this black man for whom that street is named is also responsible for naming two major streets in Indianapolis, Capitol and Senate. Those streets were called um names of states that condone uh racism and slavery. And so he wanted to change the names of those streets and he was able to do that.

unknown

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Uh there'll be there'll be a video that talks about the gold and glory. The gold and glory was akin to the 500-mile race. It was for black drivers and black people. Black people would come from all over the country to Indianapolis at the state fairgrounds to see these uh car races. And so it was called the Gold and Glory. And it lasted until the 1930s. So we had our own. So, like I'll tell you about Garveyism, you have your own everything. That was another example of that period when we had our own everything. We had our own 500-mile race because blacks could not go to the 500-mile race. Uh, so you know, we talk about that kind of history as well.

Victoria Odekomaya

Oh my god, I just oh my I'm so glad that you are documenting this, you know, with your in your career, true on and what you do right now, because I didn't I didn't have any idea, and I'm sure a lot of people are.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of people don't know this history. Black, white people. We have um every month at the Indiana Landmarks uh in collaboration with Freetown Village, we have a speaker who comes, it's free, it's at 6 o'clock, it's on the third Thursday of the month, and they will bring you history that you don't know anything about.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And there's so much of it.

Building Archives, Space, And Community Trust

Victoria Odekomaya

Right. So if there's anyone out here who is interested in even learning more about this history, like, is there anywhere beyond or any where would you lead them to? Like, where can they start?

SPEAKER_01

Well, we don't in within Indiana Landmarks have a repository where we keep all of this information. You do not we do not. We I want to, that's one of my goals. I want to be able to do that. There are some people, uh, a young woman by the name of Linda Clements is one who has a website with a lot of this history on it. But we really do need a place, a uh an archive. Uh there have been many efforts in Indianapolis to create a physical building that you could go to for archival information about black history in Indiana, and that has not happened. We have very few black history museums in Indiana. There is one in um Evansville, they do a good job there. Okay, there's one here in Indianapolis at the Christmas Attocks High School site, there is a black museum there, but it's rarely open. There is a house museum in Fort Wayne. Again, it's not open, it's not funded adequately. And so we really have a need for a black heritage site where our history can be exhibited and shared, you know, and explored, where research can take place. There's a lot of conversation going on now to create a digital archive.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So it would need a physical spot for the technology, but all of the information would be digitized and online. So I don't know how that's going to turn out. A young woman on the south side of Indianapolis, Kayla Austin, is working on doing such a project for the south side, which uh would be for an area called Norwood.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And Norwood was a community that was outside of Indianapolis at one time that was uh settled by African American men returning from the Civil War. And so that whole community was another one of these settlements, separate communities. Uh, but it was um uh grown by and populated by veterans of the Civil War, black veterans of the Civil War. So she's trying to create an archive there. So there's all these efforts going on. There's a woman, Claudia Pauley, she's trying to do it here in Indianapolis at a building that is now under uh restoration that has a lot of black history connected to it, the Colored Knights of Pythias building.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

C K-O-P, Colored Knights of Pythias, which was created because African American men could not join the white Knights of Pythia. So they created a colored Knights of Pythia. Back during that same progressive period that I mentioned earlier. And so they they built that wonderful building on Senate, and it was the home of many organizations and events and activities. Even the recorder was in that building at one time. And so, you know, it was built around the time the Madame Walker Center was built, and all of these other um monuments to black heritage, black resilience, uh many of which have now been demolished.

Victoria Odekomaya

Oh, so yeah, I was gonna ask what happened to this particular building? With which building this one that you're talking about. CKLP CKLP.

SPEAKER_01

It was neglected, it's standing there. There's a man, Alan Henderson, he's now trying to restore it. Okay. And Indiana Landmarks is working with him uh in that project, and we hope to be a full partner where we can help get that building returned to good use.

Victoria Odekomaya

So if anyone was listening right now and they were like, oh, I'm interested in because it seems like we have all the pieces of history and things, all it's everybody's trying to do something here and there, right? But I really feel like it needs to all come together, and maybe you'll be like the main because you know so much, right? Like, what can if our audience, anyone listening now, like what can they do to help in any way or capacity to bring all of this together?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I tell you, what we're looking for now, and when I say we, this is putting on another hat. Taking off Indiana Landmark's hat, putting on another hat. And that other hat is the Cultural Collective, which is a group that just was organized recently. We're going through the the process of getting our 501c3 status, of getting our LLC status. We are looking for a building that we can get into without a great cost because we don't have any money, brand new organization, where we can then have a hub for heritage and culture. One of the challenges that we are having, not just in this city, but all over the country, is being able to be the boss of ourselves, as Marcus Garvey would say. We need a building where we can exhibit our art, we can practice our culture and our heritage, we can have events, we can have space for your studio without paying a fortune for it. And so we want to have a center that will offer studio co-working space, event space at below market prices. Uh, and I'm talking 250 a month, kind of prices. And so we want to find a building. We're looking at a couple of buildings now.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um, we are negotiating whether they're going to be able to allow us to inhabit those buildings at an affordable cost. Uh, we are trying to raise some dollars now. Uh so it's hard, and you know, I always say that what prevents us as a people from progressing all the time, all over the globe, not just in Indiana, not just in the United States, but all over the world, are what I call the three C's and the big T. Okay. The big T is trust. Trust. Don't trust one another. You know? But we all want the same thing, but we don't trust each other going down the road to get it because they think that somebody is gonna get one of the C's called credit. The other C is called control. Somebody's gonna get the control that I want. Who's gonna be the boss? Right. And then the other C is what I call capacity. So that's the know-how. Do you know what to do, how to do it? Uh, you know, you let people who know what they're doing do be that, have that role. Right. You know, you step back because you don't know how to do everything. Right. Capacity is also resources. Do you have the money to get it done? You know, uh, so trust, control, credit, capacity are hindrances to us when we don't recognize these impediments to us being able to be a joined nation moving in the same direction and making the progress that we need to make.

Victoria Odekomaya

Yeah. That is so powerful because you're right, like if we don't have I was having a conversation with someone, and we were thinking about doing some work together, and it was the whole trust thing, you know, because to their credit, also they've been, they were talking about how they've been hurt by so many people. You know, and so I'm coming in and then we're this is supposed to be a great idea, but I'm like, how do I how how what can we do so that we can start by building trust because they've been hurt by so many people, right? And so I don't know how this is gonna go, but this venture that could be a great and incredible thing may not be able to go forward because of past hurts. You know, so that is such a well here.

SPEAKER_01

I have a rule. One time you're out. Okay, that's my rule. One time you are done. Because we don't have time for people who lack integrity, who who cannot do what they say and say what they're gonna do and carry through. I you know, I've noticed a lot of younger people now, young people out there, uh know that they will um not necessarily be very professional about follow through. You know, if I call you today, then I know you're busy. Me too. But they had to call back. That's right. You know, and you know, we're getting so bombarded with communication, and I know sometimes things get lost. I I'm guilty too, of you know, give but then I'm apologetic when I don't do what I say I'm gonna do, when I say I'm going to do it. So I I think, you know, when people get the message that um a lack of integrity results in you being results in you being on the out outside, never to be allowed back in, yeah, they will begin behaving differ differently. I don't want to compare it to rearing uh animal or even a child.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

But, you know, we have to, as a people, have low tolerance for the lack of integrity. Yeah. You know, in our business dealings, especially. You have to have integrity in order to build the trust.

Victoria Odekomaya

Right. Well, how do you, how do you, and this I'm asking this question for this person too right now, because like it seemed like they've been hurt by multiple different people. So not necessarily the same person over and over.

SPEAKER_01

One time. That's all they need that you need. And they'll start, you know what I mean, minimizing that group. Because of this group of people, there will be a people who will emerge who are going to be righteous people with integrity who are gonna do what they say and they're gonna say what they're gonna do. So you can quickly eliminate those that are not. You know, and it's not that those that are not are bad people, it might be they have other priorities or that they have other interests, you know, and that's fine. That's why I say do what you say and say what you're gonna do. Don't let people push you into positions and situations and businesses that you really don't have very much passion or interest in anyway. So you kind of go along to get along, but you're really not committed. And then so then you end up having um watered down consequences and results. You're not gonna have quality products. You're not putting your full effort in. You're not gonna put your full effort in. You're gonna make excuses, you're just not gonna do a thing. Yeah. So you to build trust, you have to have track record because trust is earned. That's right. And so people don't just hand you trust, so that person keeps getting hurt over and over again, then they need to uh create a earnings uh rubric. Okay, oh, they call when they said check. That's a that's a start. Oh, you know, they they gave the $25 they said they're gonna need check, you know. Start little, you can't just blindly go in and trust, you know, at the onset of a relationship. You have to build that relationship and build that trust. You can't, otherwise, you're gonna get hurt over and over and over and over and over again. Yeah. So, yeah, you got people have to prove themselves.

Closing Thanks And Final Words

Victoria Odekomaya

That's right. Oh, wow, that's so good. Well, thank you again for your time today. This has been amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you for letting me just talk, talk, talk, talk. No, no, I enjoyed it. Like, I was I love it. Like just sitting down here with you just to fill my cup. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to be here. Absolutely. So, but until next time, make sure you keep owning your brand and have a great day.

Contributor

Victoria Odekomaya

Host